It would be hard to ignore the ongoing turmoil in France even if you tried. Questions about the long-term viability of the Fifth Republic abound as the country—a keystone EU member state reduced to partial rule by decree from a dismally unpopular president—experiences yet another week of mass demonstrations. Is this simply an internal dispute about pension reform, part of a rebellious Gallic mindset, or is the French state facing an internal collapse in light of recent defeats in West Africa and growing turbulence at home?
The European Conservative sat down with Simon, a nationalist activist partaking in the current wave of demonstrations.
So far, what have your experiences been of the protests and the state’s reaction to them?
I have participated in a lot of protests since 2018, especially during the gilets jaunes (yellow vests) crisis, and this year, I have participated in protests against the pension reform proposed by the government.
Before then, I participated in some other protests, but rarely. I became more active after I saw a massive brutalization of protesters by the police during the gilets jaunes crisis. The state’s reaction to the protests hardened over time.
If we are to believe the Anglophone media, these protests relate to pension reforms imposed by the Macron government. Is this a correct view, and what are non-French observers missing regarding the structural causes at play?
Yes, the wave of protests started with this particular reform, but since his election in May 2017, Emmanuel Macron has had to face several waves of protests. These waves became more and more numerous with time. There were the famous gilets jaunes—protests against the sanitary pass during the COVID crisis.
I think it is necessary to embrace the whole history, since the election of Emmanuel Macron—and especially since the gilets jaunes—to understand what is at stake at the moment.
To go deeper into the subject, I am convinced that the government is aware that this crisis is bigger than the pensions reform because Emmanuel Macron and Élisabeth Borne are taking way too many risks for such a little reform.
Many on the French Right are decrying the involvement of the radical Left in these protests, preferring instead to stand with the forces of law and order against what they view as insurrectionary activity. What is the ideological character (if any) of the protests, and where does the nationalist Right fit in?
I don’t deny the fact that the majority of the political fight against the reform is being done by organisations from the Left (NUPES, CGT, etc.), but when a movement is being supported by almost 70% of the French population, we have to admit that it embraces people from various ideologies (including people from the Right and from the far-Right).
There are some French nationalists who are standing with the forces of law and order, some by political interests (the RN, even though some leaders had some words to support both the protesters and the forces of law, and especially Éric Zemmour), and some by the police forces, because since the 80s and the first anti-racist protests and riots, policemen are seen by some nationalists as defenders of the flag in the ghettos.
This being said, since the gilets jaunes crisis, in which a lot of nationalists participated and experienced brutal repression by police, many nationalists have reconnected with the far-right tradition of opposing the forces of law—including a lot of members of the Action Française, whose history during the first part of the 20th century was defined by a real opposition to the republican police.
Is it entirely unreasonable to expect people to work until 64 in light of an ageing population and decaying welfare state model? What alternatives are there?
From the words of Emmanuel Macron himself, in the context of elderly unemployment, it is not reasonable to ask that demographic to work more.
There are a lot of alternatives to solve this minor and temporary problem of balance within the pension system actually. For example, the capital incomes can be a source of money for the Sécurité Sociale; the highest salaries can be solicited with a higher ratio than the lowest ones; the increase in salaries would also be a source of money for the social system. The reindustrialisation of the country would allow a lot of unemployed people to work again and contribute to the pension system.
Simultaneous with events in Paris and other cities, we are witnessing similar direct action with protests in Sainte-Soline, over a planned water reservoir. Is there any link between these two protest movements or a wider environmental context for what we see in France right now?
As I said, even though the starting point of the protest is different, one can’t honestly deny the fact that these two events are now strongly linked to a bigger anti-Macron wave of protests.
In fact, I have seen a lot of people (including French nationalists) who participate in the pension reform protests and support the rioters of Sainte-Soline, despite the fact that this protest is predominantly led by the far Left.
I think that people are actually taking any reason possible to protest and riot against the government.
A cliché in European politics is the French tendency to riot. Is there any validity to this stereotype, and if so, from where does it originate?
It is hard to say, from a French point of view. I could answer that the truth is not that the French riot so much but that the other Europeans don’t riot enough!
To be more serious, yes, we have this image outside of France, since the 19th century; even since the French Revolution of 1789. But if we look at the history of the kingdom of France, there have been riots that took place during the Middle Ages and the Modern period.
Some of the riots even forced the king to change his policy. Although this cliché is quite true, it can be nuanced by some facts. For example, we have one of the lowest rates of trade union membership; some countries, such as Denmark, have more days on workers’ strikes than France.
In light of these protests and recent military losses in West Africa, is it fair to say that the Fifth French Republic is in collapse? What is a realistic political and extra-political outcome of France’s current situation?
Without a doubt, yes, the Fifth Republic is collapsing. In fact, I think this institutional crisis dates from the death of Georges Pompidou.
The Fifth Republic is often defined as a tailored suit for General De Gaulle because he had his own vision of power and his own way of ruling. The problem of the Fifth Republic (and, in my opinion, all forms of representative democracy) is that it is adapted to a righteous man, but this type of man is very rare in politics.
The way out, at least from this crisis, in my opinion, would be to let the people decide with a referendum, for example. But for the long term, I think the key would be simply to give the people decent living standards and to allow people to live from their work, to increase wages, to stop tax exemptions for the richest, etc. I don’t think that people are rioting for more civil rights etc. but for better living conditions (civil rights being a way to enhance these ones).
Does Macron’s announcement of effective rule by decree on certain issues, bypassing the National Assembly, mark a new and dangerous chapter in his administration?
I can’t tell if this marks a new chapter in his administration because he has already been ruling (especially during the covid crisis) without the National Assembly. But it is indeed dangerous because now he assumes this dictatorial behaviour.
The opposition at the Assembly, already very weak, will be even less effective. But it is also dangerous for him because every use of Article 49.3 is making the opposition in the streets bigger than before. In fact, I think that this behaviour would have happened regardless of the president we have because it is in the essence of electoral democracy.
The president is elected by the so-called national will; therefore, to be opposed to the president and the government is to be opposed to the national will itself (this is the rhetoric used by all members of the government for decades to delegitimize the opposition).
Rather crudely, the crowds seen on the streets look very ethnically French. Are we seeing disproportionately fewer ethnic minorities in the protests?
Indeed the social struggle in France has always been led by native French. Minority communities protest far more against racism for example. I had seen this gap when the gilets jaunes crisis started, some groups against racism and police violence on Facebook even published their non-support to the gilets jaunes because the gilets jaunes used to not participate in protests before.
What is ahead for protesters, and where do you see the faultlines for future movements like this being?
The faultline would be to think that the workers use all their strength for a quick and well-organised mass strike. My opinion is that the workers have to hold out over time and not end until the government eventually accepts to withdraw the pension reform.
