AfD MEP Christine Anderson became a household name after a speech she delivered at the European Parliament in March of 2022 flooded social and legacy media networks alike. In her speech, Anderson excoriated Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau, calling him a “disgrace to any democracy” for his authoritarian-esque actions against truckers opposing forced vaccinations.
The fire-breathing German MEP made her foray into politics in 2013 when she became a member of the right-conservative Alternative for Deutschland (AfD). Quickly, and likely due to her fighting spirit paired with her no-nonsense, matter-of-fact, communication style, she rose in the party’s ranks. After having served as the AfD’s group leader in the Limburg-Weilburg district, in Hesse, from 2016 to 2018, she was elected to represent the German people in the European Parliament.
Today, Anderson, a mother of three, sits on several European Parliamentary committees, including but not limited to the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic, the Special Committee on Artificial Intelligence in the Digital Age, the Committee on Culture and Education, and the Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality.
Following the AfD’s annual congress in Magdeburg in the summer, MEP Anderson spoke with The European Conservative about the outcome of the congress and what it means for the party’s direction as it looks ahead to the 2024 EU elections. We also discussed the Russo-Ukrainian war and how it’s affecting Germany; Sahra Wagenknecht and the possibility for right- and left-wing populists to join forces, and more.
At Alternative for Germany’s (AfD) party congress, you chose the MEPs that will go on the list in next year’s election, and the mainstream press was saying that the nationalist wing—they call it the Völkisch wing—won in this congress. Also, there have been reports that this congress was calmer than previous ones, which were sometimes quite contentious. What do you attribute this to? Is it a sign of the party maturing?
Yes, I guess my party is growing up after all. We know each other much better now. When we first started out, it was simply anyone who could give a good speech. We didn’t even know anything about any of our colleagues, for the most part. So it’s different now. I mean, I’ve known my colleagues for about ten years now. You’re better capable of forming an opinion about certain people. So yes, I think that’s the main factor.
Do you have anything to say regarding the news about the different factions? There were reports saying that the MEP lists are a clear indication that the—let’s say nationalist/social democratic faction—has been victorious.
It’s ridiculous, and just goes to show how desperate they are. In every single congress since my party was founded in 2013 – for all of Germany, or in the individual states—the media was all over us. “Oh my God, once again they moved to the Right!” Well, we have moved right so many times now, I fear that we have come out on the left side already. It’s ridiculous. Once again, it just goes to show how desperate they are.
The party has really picked up in quality ever since we had the congress. Plus, we are rising in the polls. Overall, we’re now at 22% or 23% in some states. We’re even hitting 34-35%. And they’re afraid. But they fail to recognize that this is a reflection of their bad policies and the fact that the people will no longer tolerate them selling the German people down the river. So rather than being critical of their own actions, they continue to blame it on us being “right-wing extremists.”
They have no arguments against you other than to level the ad hominem attacks?
They don’t. They make stuff up. It’s ridiculous. There was one article about me in which they said that Canadian anti-vaxxers—this was literally in their title—funded a super-luxury trip to Canada for me, obviously to discredit me. But they also stated that I had attended a screening of an anti-Semitic movie. They might have wanted to take a look at the movie. It was a documentary made by a Holocaust survivor in which she described how she survived, and she pointed out …
Sounds very anti-Semitic.
Exactly. She pointed out what the Nazis did back then to rise to power, and how it was possible for such a horrific regime to come about. That’s how it works for them. And it’s not working for the people anymore. They see through this garbage and they see through that BS by now. So I hope they continue with this bashing, because it seriously helps us.
So the top candidate who emerged from the congress, Dr. Maximilian Krah, said that the AfD is the most exciting right-wing party in Europe. I imagine you agree with him. Why do you think that is? You’re up to 23-24% in the polls, and you seem to be growing. What are your thoughts on that?
Yes, I absolutely agree with him. The point is really just this: When we were founded ten years ago, the main topic was Euroskepticism. But that was only part of the problem. People now realize that every single thing we have been saying for ten years has been true. And they really are trying to suppress us as an opposition. Our houses get vandalized, our cars get burned. The owners of those venues where we hold our events get threatened. They get their windows smashed in and their buildings are vandalized, too. They’re putting pressure on these people to not host us anymore.
But despite all of this, we have turned out to be rather resilient. And we have proven that we will not back down just because the going gets tough. No, on the contrary; we were right. People are starting to realize that now. Every day they’re putting out some new policy that proves us right. They are out to get the people. They want to strip the people of their fundamental rights. They want to strip the people of democracy. And they want to strip them of all of their money. Climate change is another part of the madness that’s going on. I could go on and on. This whole transgender madness, it’s the same thing.
And our elected representatives from the old parties—let’s call them that, for the lack of a better word— they prove every day that they are not acting in the best interest of the people. They simply don’t. They’re selling the German people down the river. And no one, especially not in the Western democracies, deserves that. It has been quite obvious, especially in the last three years. They were all in lockstep. This is not an agenda that is only a thing in Germany or France or Spain, or wherever. It’s literally every single Western democracy throughout the world.
Yes. I would also say that with the onset of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Germany has been targeted—more so than any other Western state. Look at how it’s affecting your economy through deindustrialization. I think it goes without saying that Germany has been disproportionately affected by this war. So, I think perhaps this is waking people up a bit.
Yes, it is. To be quite frank, this war did not start on February 24 of last year. It started at the very latest in November 2013, with the events on the Maidan. What happened back then was that the people were being shut down. We were told back then that these were supposedly anti-Russian rebels, which they weren’t. We know by now that they weren’t. The Ukrainian people were shut down by Ukrainian soldiers.
But the interesting part about that is, what preceded it? Once again, it goes to show that there is an agenda, because what happened prior was that Ukraine was supposed to join the EU. But the president back then, Viktor Yanukovych, realized that his people did not want to join the EU, and put the negotiations for joining the EU on ice. He said, “My people don’t want this, so we will not pursue this.” But they will not take no for an answer. So they simply got rid of him, exchanging him for another president who was more in line with their agenda. And that’s really when it started. That should really scare the heck out of people. And I will say again that whatever their plan is, they will not take no for an answer. It’s as simple as that.
Let’s talk about next year. It’s shaping up to be an important one for Germany and for Europe. It could become a sort of coming-of-age year for AfD, depending on how it performs in the east. You have elections in Saxony, Brandenburg, and Thuringia, and in all of them the AfD is currently number one in the polls. What should the platform be? I know this perhaps isn’t part of your expertise, since you’re an MEP, but on what platform should the AfD run? Should the election strategy with respect to Europe and eastern Germany differ in terms of concrete policy issues?
No, it shouldn’t, because the major problems we are looking at right now are no longer about being on the defensive at this point. It’s about reestablishing freedom, democracy, and the rule of law.
As I said, every single program and every single policy that has been put into place and implemented over the last ten years was aimed at abolishing freedom, democracy, and the rule of law and establishing some sort of a supra-national government.
Strengthening the EU as a supra-national institution is really only the first step. For a lot of companies, it is much easier to deal with a single entity, the EU Commission, than having to deal with 28 different national governments. It’s really a pain in the neck for these multinational corporations. They don’t want that. But it goes against the interests of the people.
We have a Grundgesetz in Germany, or a constitution in other countries. We need to make sure that these will not be undermined and rolled back. And that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing everywhere, for some time now.
Going back to east Germany, Thuringia, Brandenburg, Saxony—is the AfD pondering a potential coalition, or at least trying to court one of the old parties, as you called them, such as the CDU. Or maybe Sahra Wagenknecht, if she ends up forming a new party. What is the AfD thinking in terms of potential coalitions?
I would have to leave that up to the parties in those individual states, because it might vary. But as of now, they all are refusing to go into a coalition with us. They would rather collaborate with the Greens, or even the Left—the dark red Left. So, more power to them. That will show the people what sellouts they are. Eventually they will have to come around or they will just disappear. It’s as simple as that. But as of now, I would say that we should really not push for a coalition with any of those parties, at least not if we aren’t in a strong position to make demands. But time will tell, and we will see what happens.
If Sahra Wagenknecht does form a party, I assume it would likely be open to a Right-Left populist coalition. What do you think about that?
I respect and appreciate Sahra Wagenknecht. She’s right on when identifying the problems. But we differ completely in terms of solutions, because hers are not in line with what a libertarian would want. Her solutions will lead to more socialism, more communism, that kind of thing. So I don’t see how we would ever be able to work together, if she did form a party. The solutions she comes up with have nothing to do with freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, nothing to do with libertarianism, none of that.
On top of that, I don’t really see it happening. To me it seems as if the media are just painting a ghost on the wall to possibly scare us as AfD . But it doesn’t really concern me if she forms a party. More power to her. It is not that easy forming a party and getting sufficient support to make any difference. But I don’t see my party working with her if she does, because of her differing solutions. We do not want communism. We do not want socialism, because communism and socialism are the very root of all evil. It’s as simple as that.
What are your thoughts on the American populist Right, especially in light of what happened with Nord Stream? If the AfD were in power, would the U.S. Right regard it as an ally? How can the relationship between these right-wing populist parties on opposite sides of the Atlantic be cultivated, maintained, and strengthened?
In any which way we could manage. As I said, freedom, democracy, and the rule of law is under attack, especially in the Western democracies. Of course, the people need to realize that it’s not just about the American government or the German government or the Spanish government. They’re all in cahoots with each other, and they’re all turning against the people. So if people want to restore freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, we have to pull together.
I have hope in the American people, because they have a completely different and more profound understanding of freedom and democracy than you sometimes find in Western European countries. We need to join forces and find ways of getting more reach, of waking the people up, and so on.
When looking at the Eastern European countries, however, that’s a whole different ball game. And the same is true of the eastern German states, because they also lived through totalitarianism, and it hasn’t been that long since they had to endure it. They remember and they see the parallels. They see what’s happening, because it feels all too familiar to them. And on top of that, they have learned how to read a newspaper. What is important in a newspaper isn’t what it says, it’s rather what it doesn’t say and what is written between the lines.
So yes, our strongest allies are the Eastern European countries and the eastern German states. They are likewise more susceptible to what the German government is doing and what the governments in other countries do.
I can definitely attest to that. I’m in Hungary right now, and these people know what creeping totalitarianism looks like.
Yes, exactly. But that’s the other thing. Take Hungary or Poland: They are governments that, for all intents and purposes, are serving their people. But there isn’t a single plenary session, a single plenary week that goes by without either of those countries being attacked for violations of democratic principles. It’s a blatant lie, that framing, that gaslighting—because this is what it really is.
So, what did Poland do? Poland imposed a judicial reform, and [the EU] was all over them—anti-democratic and blah, blah, blah. Do you know what [Poland] did? They imposed the exact same judicial system that we have had in Germany since 1949, meaning that the government appoints the supreme justices. In Germany that’s okay, because they have a government which is in line with all of the BS, but in Poland it’s bad. That, in and of itself, goes to show that what they’re doing is nothing but gaslighting, and it’s only and purely about pushing a certain agenda. It is not about freedom, democracy, and the rule of law for them. No, they want to push their agenda, which will in the end disenfranchise all of the peoples in all of the EU member states. And that’s just the beginning.
At the congress, the AfD decided to formally apply to join the Identity and Democracy (ID) group. I had thought that your party was already part of it, but you said that only now are you going to apply for formal membership.
We were not a part of it, not even de facto.
We are part of the ID group, which is completely separate from the party.
That is the foundation?
No, there is a foundation, there is a party, and within the EU parliament, we joined together in a faction, in a group: the ID group.
So there’s a faction within the EU, there’s a foundation, and then there’s a party?
Right, and then there’s an ID party. We decided to formally become a part of the ID party. I used to be totally against this, because I do not want the further formalization of these European structures.
What they are doing—and we have already passed this in the EU parliament—is saying that we will have so-called transnational lists in the future. This is another step towards disenfranchising the people and robbing them of their parliamentary representation. A future Member of Parliament for Italy will be voted in by the German or the Polish people, for instance. How can someone represent what the people want if those people do not understand what he is saying because they do not speak that language?
This is what we’re looking at: the next step in abolishing parliamentary representation and democratic principles. In order to put up a transnational list, you have to be a member of a European party, because only they will be eligible to come up with a list and run in the elections with that list. So we had to do it. We didn’t have to do it right now, because they will not be able to implement this before the next elections, but by 2029, we will be confronted with that.
I see. You have the ID group and then the ECR group, and before the outbreak of the war, it seemed as if both factions might have been able to merge together and form one big faction. It would have been among the largest in the EU. But with the onset of the war, both groups are really divided. But do you see any potential for the two to merge? What about cooperating with them on some issues?
That’s been happening all along. In the beginning, in 2019, when we started this legislation, I was hoping we would be able to form one big faction with all of these right-wing parties, if you will. But it didn’t work for various reasons. I don’t want to get into that. But I have come to realize that, given the way things are right now, it is brilliant, because we have two factions that are more or less in line on a lot of issues, and we actually do work together on those issues. And this also has some benefits, because when you look at the different committees, there are coordinators. Each group puts up a coordinator, and there is a body called the Coordinators’ Meeting. They prepare the next committee session. They agree in certain ways on how to do things, what topics should be discussed—that sort of thing. So if we were all in one group, that would mean that I would be the coordinator in two of those committees. I would sit there all by myself. But as things are now, I have a colleague, and it works just fine. We’re bouncing off of each other. Before we go into a Coordinators’ Meeting, we get together and discuss how we will go about doing something. How will you position yourself? What can I do to support you? What can you do to support me? And it’s still just two people out of five others—no, out of seven. But it helps.
Yes, certainly better than being one.
Exactly. Because as you can imagine, they’re ganging up on both of us as it is. Now imagine that it was only one of us. Dang.
Yes, I’m sure that makes all the difference.
Yes, exactly. So like I said, I’m happy with having two national conservative groups, and it works for me. I get along with my colleagues from ECR just fine, and we work well together. As you have seen in the COVID committee, we definitely stirred up some crap there. That would not have been possible had we not been working together.
The AfD has been sending mixed signals regarding the European Union in recent months. Back in June, I believe it was, the leadership called for an orderly dissolution of the EU, but at the end of this congress it was decided that the party wishes to establish a federation of European nations, a new European economy and interest community that preserves the sovereignty of the member states. What was the reason for this change of heart?
I don’t really see it as a change of heart. It’s always been our position that we want to go back to what the EU was before the 1990s, or perhaps the 1980s, when it was about shared interests and finding where it was sensible to work together. When it’s a place for trade, it’s fine. Where it went in a completely wrong direction was when sovereign rights were continuously put into the hands of the European Commission and the other EU institutions. This is yet another example of how the people are being disenfranchised and stripped of their rights.
It has always been our position to go back to what the EU used to have, and that’s what is stated in our program. There are people in my party who think it is possible to simply roll things back, to an extent, to where national sovereignty would be appreciated and respected, and there are other people in the party who doubt that it is even possible to do that. I guess I belong to the latter group. I simply fail to see how we would be capable of doing that, and I always compare it to a toxic relationship. When you’re in one, you get the hell out of there; you do not stay in it, because you do not have a contingency plan. You don’t know what to do next. And the EU is definitely a kind of toxic relationship.
That’s just my point of view, but it’s the only place where I actually differ [with some other party members]. There is no political will. We don’t have a majority to actually roll things back, and like I said, they will not take no for an answer. They have come that far. Why would anyone think that they will surrender, given what they have accomplished from their point of view in terms of disenfranchising the people? Why would they want to do this? But that is the only place where we differ.
You would say that this is the only fault line in the party?
As far as that issue is concerned, yes.
Is the party divided? Is there a segment of the party that looks to the east, and another that’s a bit more economically liberal that looks to the west?
The majority of my party is in favour of economic liberalism. Point blank. There may be points where some might deviate a bit from the liberal past, but there are very few. At least that’s the way I see it.
At the convention, it sounded as if the AfD very much wants a sort of Europa der Vaterländer. That’s what you’re hoping for, yes?
Exactly. Like I said, there are issues, but it is very sensible to have partners and to work together, but if it boils down to stripping the peoples in the EU member states of their rights and their democracy, that’s where I definitely draw the line. I will not even negotiate that point.
Earlier we spoke about the fact that some of the parties, even on the Right, are a bit hesitant to work with the AfD. Perhaps for historical reasons, they’re a bit worried about a resurgent, assertive Germany. What should the AfD say to these people to get them to realize that a resurgent Germany isn’t something to be feared, but is in fact something that would be quite an advantage for Europe and the West? As opposed to what we have now in Germany, where Europe is being sold out.
It is every people’s right to have a national state and to have democracy, freedom, and the rule of law. Any people in the world that sees these values being infringed upon and stripped away has a right to defend them – or, as I said, at this point to restore them. It is quite astonishing that this is sometimes framed in terms of, “Here they go again!”
In my generation we asked our grandparents, “How could you have possibly let this happen? How could you stand by and do nothing?” I’m telling you, we are now at the exact same spot again. We’ve seen it over the past three years with this whole COVID madness. It was so easy, wasn’t it? It was so darn easy. Once again, the masses were literally begging the government for more restrictions, to really hammer down on these evil anti-vaxxers and anti-science people, and blah, blah, blah.
The point is that the ones who scream “Never again!” the loudest, and the ones who scream the loudest that we should learn from history, haven’t in fact learned a damned thing. They would not recognize fascism if it jumped up and bit them in the face, because they all fail to look at the mechanisms: what the Nazis did back then, and how they came to power. The parallels are so overwhelming. Only an idiot is incapable of seeing them. But like I said, it’s frustrating, and at this point, I really don’t know what else to say. The ones who are screaming “Never again!” the loudest were exactly the same ones who got in line for the [COVID] parade over the past three years.
Ferdinand Ekkehard Roth contributed to this interview
