A graduate in history and contemporary history from the University of Paris, Fabrice Leggeri is a senior French civil servant, politician, and diplomat who has spent much of his career in the Ministry of the Interior, serving as sub-prefect in the French regions of Haute-Normandie and Châteaulin. Between 2013 and 2014, he headed the division for the fight against irregular immigration in the French Ministry of the Interior. He was also the director of the European Union’s European Border and Coast Guard Agency (Frontex) between 2015 and 2022, when he resigned after three years of continuous clashes with the European Commission. Fabrice Leggeri is Rassemblement National’s number three candidate for the next European elections.
What were your reasons for leaving Frontex?
In April 2022, the French authorities asked me to resign because, since February 2022, the OLAF (European Anti-Fraud Office) had recommended a “disciplinary procedure against me,” and because they did not want to confront Von der Leyen and Commissioner Johansson. The message I received was that “nobody in France wanted to save Private Leggeri.”
When Ylva Johansson was appointed home affairs commissioner at the end of 2019, I clearly saw the difference with her predecessor, the Greek Dimitris Avramopouluos, and also the difference between Juncker’s and von der Leyen’s commission. Johansson is a Swedish social democratic politician who, in my opinion, is a left-wing radical. The first time I met her, in October 2019, Frontex was preparing to equip itself with small arms and uniforms mandated by European lawmakers. When I explained to her that we needed more time to achieve our goal because of the legal problems regarding weapons and uniforms, she interrupted me and said, “Don’t worry. You don’t need guns and uniforms because migrants come in search of love. Europe is an ageing continent, so whether you like it or not, it is your job to welcome migrants.”
What were your thoughts at the time?
I realised that the situation could only get worse and that there was a huge political gap between me and the Commission; my concept of the mission was to establish a law enforcement authority to help nation state authorities protect their borders, not to be an NGO or a humanitarian agency.
And indeed, the situation worsened in 2020, in the context of COVID, following tensions on the Greek-Turkish border. Erdogan sent thousands of migrants towards Europe and Frontex was deployed to assist the Greek authorities. In the weeks and months that followed, there were many clashes with Turkish coastguards and even shootings on the land border from the Turkish side. The response from Brussels was always politically correct, but without offering real political support. At the same time, there was a growing presence of NGOs denouncing on a daily basis, as did Commissioner Johansson, the pushback of migrants. In October, the German newspaper Der Spiegel published several (and in my opinion, fake) videos provided by the Turkish coastguard. It was supposedly a work of investigative journalism, but in fact, if you look closely at the situation, the scenario was provided by George Soros’ Open Society. From that moment on, I was under continuous media and political attack until I resigned, and I don’t think they expected me to withstand that much.
Is that when the investigations against you began?
Yes; on 10 November, the management board launched an investigation, and in February 2021 it determined that there was no evidence for the allegations against Frontex, while noting that there was a need to improve the flow of information. At the same time, OLAF launched an investigation on 11 November, and three weeks later they came to my office to collect all the information from my six years as head of the Agency, for “violations of migrants’ fundamental rights” and “pushbacks.” These are not within the OLAF’s remit, so they added “misbehaviour and mismanagement.” The European Parliament also joined the investigation in early 2021 and its conclusion, in July, was exactly the same as the board’s. However, the final statement was full of political comments about “violation of rights,” “bad education,” and “unwillingness to resource the fundamental rights office.” This is a pack of lies, considering that I increased the budget of the fundamental rights office by a factor of five, but the important thing was that, again, there was no proof for the allegations against Frontex.
What happened with the OLAF investigation?
OLAF continued its investigation by putting pressure on me and various members of my staff. To give you an idea, I was questioned by the investigators on 21 July from 9 a.m. until 3 a.m.; they proposed to continue the following day, but I replied that I liked to finish the job once I had started it. OLAF issued its first report in February 2022, explaining that they had so much information that they had to split the investigation into three parts, and asking for a “disciplinary file” to be opened against me. The Socialists, the Left, and the Greens won the elections in Germany, and they withdrew their support for me, as did the French government, and the Commission also wanted to kick me out. This is what led to my resignation from Frontex.
There was a particular case, which was the border crisis with Belarus. What role did Frontex play in this case?
We did not deploy Frontex in Poland, but we did deploy Frontex in Lithuania. Alongside our officers, fundamental rights monitors, who are part of Frontex, but who act independently, were also deployed. These monitors recommended that all migrants at the border be transferred to Lithuania and Poland, I thanked them for their recommendation, but told them I would not do it. They then complained that the measures taken by the Lithuanian government were not compatible with European treaties and “values” because they prevented migrants from crossing the border between border crossings, which is expressly forbidden under Schengen. Then they went to complain to the media. The monitors behaved like NGO political activists. After seeing what had happened in Lithuania, I spoke to the Polish government—which did not want NGOs on its border—not to ask for Frontex support.
You were at the Polish border, what was your impression?
Yes; I did not inform the Commission beforehand and I visited the border with the Polish authorities. I saw what a good job they were doing there, with the fences, the soldiers, and everything that is necessary to defend a border. I gave several interviews afterwards in which I pointed out that I was impressed by the good work done by the Poles and that they did not need Frontex because they were self-sufficient. The Commission was very angry and Johansson wanted to deploy Frontex in Poland, but I responded negatively. The images of riot police, clashes, and the use of tear gas showed that this was an exceptional situation outside the role of Frontex and, furthermore, I pointed out my concern that fundamental rights were being violated, which, in line with article 46 of the Frontex regulation, precluded launching an operation there. Needless to say, this greatly frustrated the Commission and NGOs.
Johansson’s do-gooder mentality is shared by many politicians, but there is also a huge amount of money in everything related to immigration. What do you think is really behind this?
In fact, there are people in NGOs who honestly want to help, naïve idealists who do not realise that they are helping criminal activities; others simply hate the West and want to fill Europe with people from all over the world; and then there are what we in France call Islamo-leftists who want to bring large masses of Muslim population into Europe. It is a mystery why so many members of these NGOs, who are Europeans, hate European civilisation so much. I cannot understand it.
It is also clear that there is a huge amount of money at stake. Criminal networks established in North Africa have people in Europe and, in fact, the activities of NGOs help these criminal networks. In 2017, the Italian interior minister, Marco Minniti, asked us to help identify the links between some NGOs and people smugglers in Libya. Using Frontex aircraft, we found patterns that we shared with the Italian authorities and which led to several arrests. What we were able to document is that there was coordination between some NGOs and the smugglers. These NGOs would announce where and when they would be in a certain place and this information was shared with the smugglers. This is their modus operandi.
You have jumped into politics and are standing in the European elections with Rassemblement National. Why did you take this step?
Because I have witnessed what the Commission has done, with Yohansson and with Von der Leyen. If I went back to my old civil service post, it was clear to me that I would have to remain silent and obey. On the other hand, if I wanted to fight, to strengthen our borders, to open the eyes of the citizens and also of our governments, I had to go into politics. I also considered starting a new path, doing something completely different and founding my own company, but I have been serving the public interest all my life, I have seen many things and I can help political parties to fight for justice, for our citizens, our societies and our nations. So I decided to go into politics.
In 2022, I started to have meetings with Rassemblement National. Marine Le Pen and Jordan Bardella wanted to understand what had happened to me and were aware that I had been attacked politically and in the media because I wanted to fulfil my mission with Frontex and protect the borders. So they asked me to help them understand what was going on and we established a partnership that eventually led me to the European lists.
You know what goes on in Brussels, and this is important because, for many people, what goes on in the Commission is incomprehensible.
Le Pen and Bardella told me that what I had told them was so serious and so bad that they could not even have imagined it. When you are outside, when you are not inside the system, you cannot even imagine what is going on inside, and that is why politics is the way to continue my mission, to continue to serve the public interest for France and for other European countries. Indirectly, citizens of other European countries who are concerned about immigration, NGOs, the Commission, open borders, and the loss of identity or even the replacement of the European population, can benefit from my presence in the European Parliament.
How should Europe tackle the problem of illegal immigration?
We have to get the politics of border control out of the way. We have to fight the false narrative disseminated by NGOs and the Commission that says it is impossible to control borders and that tries to convince people that it is immoral to turn away poor people who just want a better life. Some people buy this narrative and others accept that a certain number of migrants should be allowed to pass, but the problem is that the flow does not stop and is increasing. The idea, even defended by the new director of Frontex, is that there is no river or sea capable of stemming the tide of migration, that borders are useless, and that all that can be done is to count the number of migrants and try to register them.
As I have always argued, it is legal to defend the border. It is also possible to intercept boats at sea, to determine whether an illegal is a minor or not, to expel those who do not qualify for asylum, and so on. If one examines the migration pact, the agreement assumes that nothing will prevent migrants from physically arriving in Europe, applying for asylum, and then being distributed among the different European countries. In other words, the first part of the journey is organised by the human trafficking mafias; the second part by NGOs to cross the sea; and the third part by the states that will have to place the migrants in their towns and cities.
My opinion, which is also the opinion of Rassemblement National, and my personal conclusion as former director of Frontex, is that instead of the migration pact, a rule should be implemented at EU level so that people who want to apply for asylum can do so at the consulate of EU countries in third countries, not in Europe. Even opening up the possibility of setting up asylum seekers’ centres in those countries in which representatives of Frontex and Member States can participate. If the person is not a refugee, then they cannot come. Similarly, those intercepted at sea should be returned to the country of departure and should apply for asylum there. The message must be very clear: We do not accept illegal entries.
