Nicola Procaccini is an Italian politician who has served as a member of the European Parliament since 2019. The former mayor of Terracina (2011-2015 and 2016-2019), he is a member of Brothers of Italy (FdI).
As co-chair of the European Conservatives and Reformists (ECR), what is your view on the legislature that is coming to an end?
It is always difficult to take stock, but I have to say that, all in all, it has been a positive balance. This was a very complicated legislature, because it was marked by two wars and a pandemic. We conservatives have maintained our consistency since the beginning of the legislature, when we were treated like plague victims by leftists. Now that we see the consensus of the center-right growing throughout Europe, we are hopeful that the next legislature can transform a Europe that has been too distant and absent from the real problems of the people.
Elections may change the majority that has led the parliament these past five years. Do you believe in a possible alliance with other forces, such as the European People’s Party (EPP) and Renew? Or are you thinking of a common front with right-wing Identity and Democracy (ID) (which could be the third-largest group in parliament, according to polls)?
Everything suggests that the elections will bring about good results for the center-right. This can be seen not only from the current polls but also from the polls from this last year and a half, which have predicted that center-right parties will triumph in half of Europe. However, it is premature to talk about alliances. The fact is that in this final term, Renew has voted like us conservatives on many Green Deal issues, as has the EPP. The EP, as we know, is not like national governments: majorities are variable.
In Italy, you are allied with La Lega, which in Europe works with the AfD. Could this be a problem at the national government level, in case of contrasts in Europe between you and AfD?
In Europe, things are different than in the national government, where—in our case—the majority has already proven to be solid and cohesive.
You have welcomed Nicolas Bay into your ranks, an exponent of Reconquête. Zemmour’s party is considered extreme right-wing, at least in France. Would it not have been better to wait for the elections before making this decision?
This idea that the Left, in France as elsewhere, determines who is moderate and who is not, who is extremist and who is not, who is an ally and who is not, has had its day. Reconquête is a party with ideas that differ from the Left, that’s all. I don’t think we should have waited for the elections when we share ideals and a common project. Reconquête has every right to find a home in the common house of European conservatives. And I believe that the party will do well in the next European elections.
Your conservatives have been among the most bitter enemies of the Green Deal. You are also a member of the ENVI Environment Committee. What’s wrong with wanting to improve the environment in which we live and to stop pollution? Historically, conservatives have been environmentalists and ecologists, like one of the greatest conservative thinkers, Sir Roger Scruton.
Timmermans’ Green Deal is imbued with a typically socialist ideological furor that does not take into account the principle of technological neutrality, nor the needs of entire productive sectors, which are in danger of being literally wiped out, to the benefit of China and the world’s most polluting economies. The European Left does not want to preserve nature from the work of human beings, but simply to erase human beings from it, including farmers and fishermen who have lived and worked in nature for generations. We conservationists are ecologists because, as the etymology of the word ecology suggests, we consider it our duty to preserve our ‘home’ in order to pass it on to those who will come after us. As Scruton himself points out, this is the “quintessence of the conservative cause, the most vivid example of the alliance between generations.”
What do you think is wrong with Europe, and how do you think you can change it? You have always said that Europe is absent on important things, but how do you reconcile the fact that, for you, the sovereignty of states is untouchable. Is that not a contradiction?
Perhaps it would be easier to say what works in this Europe: very little, unfortunately. Our idea of Europe is that of a confederation of free and sovereign states that takes care of a few important things and does them best: common defence, foreign policy, industrial policy, immigration management. This is where Europe can and must do better than the individual states. For the rest, it is better to delegate the work to the states.
Will you support Ursula von der Leyen?
First of all, we demand respect for the treaties, according to which the choice for the presidency of the Commission does not belong to the European parties, but to the national governments. Second, we have no personal animosity towards von der Leyen, who has shown good sense and self-criticism in recent months; but we are totally opposed to the political agenda she has pursued during her term. Fortunately, the next Commission will not be the expression of a majority of socialist governments, as was the case in 2019. Regardless of the outcome of the June elections, the Commission (like the Council) will be centre-right. That is why we need a Parliament of the same political colour.
Will Fidesz join the ECR after the elections? It seems that a solution like this could be reached, but isn’t Orbán increasingly isolated in Europe? Are you afraid that this alliance could somehow sideline you and create tensions within your own group, where some parties do not want Orban to join the ECR?
In the ECR, we are used to making decisions together. After the elections, if Fidesz applies to join the group, we will discuss it with the other national delegations. Unlike the Left, we do not put cordons sanitaire around anyone, let alone allow ourselves to interfere with what a legitimately and democratically elected government does. We dialogue with everyone and are open to listening, as should be the practice in a democracy. It is the Left that loses no opportunity to show its intolerance towards those who do not think like it.
How do you think Europe can compete with the two superpowers—the U.S. and China—and not risk being irrelevant, as it seems to be at the moment?
By acting as a superpower, but without wanting to be what it cannot and should not be—i.e. a superstate—as some would like to do. We must be a Europe that knows how to defend its borders and its interests in a cohesive and united manner and knows how to be influential. Giorgia Meloni demonstrates how leadership and authority can contribute to increasing the weight of our continent in the new and very difficult geopolitical phase.
Do you agree with von der Leyen when she says that we need a common defense and that she will probably appoint a defense commissioner if she is elected?
We agree with the need for greater integration between European armies, especially with regard to the joint production of armaments. It is clear that it would represent an industrial economic advantage, but it would also help NATO nations to meet their budgetary targets.
She believes that the next parliament and the next commission will finally be able to effectively counteract the phenomenon of irregular immigration, which is likely to increase given the growing tensions in the world.
Only if we follow the policy direction taken by Giorgia Meloni, which is to make agreements with the countries of departure of migrants, and which is already proving effective. As we have been saying for some time, we need to break the perverse link between crime and irregular immigration, and this can only be done by helping countries in difficulty such as Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, and Egypt. It is only by developing the Mattei Plan, which provides for aid and development throughout the sub-Saharan area, that a gradual solution to the problem can be achieved.
After the attempted illegal shutdown of NatCon 2024 in Brussels, The European Conservative spoke again with Nicola Procaccini at the conference to learn of his response to what he had witnessed.
There’s a massive right-wing surge and the Leftist powers in Brussels seem to be afraid. What happened right in front of this venue, yesterday, testifies to that.
It’s unbelievable. But I think it can help us to explain what usually—what daily—happens in Brussels and in European institutions. We have to face the arrogance of the Left that usually attempts to shut the mouth of all those who have a different political opinion. Obviously, it’s sad, but it’s also a way to understand the reality, which is this: that they reject dialogue and debate. I think this may be because they expect to lose because their ideas are too weak, and so they choose a different way. They choose the way of violence, they choose the way of arrogance. But we must keep calm, we must be focused on our target and our goal. Around Europe, conservative movements are rising day by day. The polls are showing exactly this, so we are very optimistic.
The next EU elections are just two months away. What are your hopes? What are the issues at stake? And what do you think the next hemicycle will look like?
I’m almost sure that the balance will move to the right. I don’t know exactly how much, but I’m sure of it. For example, Italy now has a conservative government that may be the most popular government out of all the biggest countries in Europe. Our achievements in Italy show that if people decide to give an opportunity to the conservative forces, that could be a good choice. I think that this is spreading around Europe, and not only in Italy. Wherever I look, I see that the Leftists are losing ground. My hope is to copy the Italian model for the European parliament: in Italy, we have a centre-right coalition, and my hope is to have the same in the European parliament.
