Filip Styczyński is the former director of TVP World (Polish state television’s English-language channel), which until its closure was the first English-language channel in the Central and Eastern European region.
We discussed the closure of TVP World and the arrest of two Law and Justice (PiS) MPs at the presidential palace.
What is happening in Poland?
From a journalistic point of view, and without going into judicial matters in depth, there are two elements that explain what the new government is doing in Poland. On the one hand, there is a psychological factor. For Tusk, the destruction of all conservative or pro-PiS institutions is not just a political issue; it is a personal matter, a revenge for the defeats he has suffered in the past. On the other hand, Civic Platform has bought into its own propaganda, its own parallel reality, and believes that this is what it must do to “save democracy.” That is why the government’s attitude, with the use of police force, is so exaggerated; and, we can only expect it to go further. It is like in Dostoyevsky’s story: once a criminal commits a crime, he commits one after another until he is exposed. That’s how this government acts.
In other words, they break all the rules of democracy in order to defend democracy.
Yes, that’s the excuse. But let me come back to the issue of revenge and Tusk’s personal motivation, because it is very important. Kamiński, the creator and head of the anti-corruption bureau during the first PiS government in 2005, was a real headache for Platform politicians. Today, EU politicians do not remember that one of the key reasons for Tusk’s prior defeat was the huge scale of corruption. Kamiński was prosecuted for abuse of power in his fight against corruption and was pardoned by President Duda. The truth is that many of Tusk’s closest friends were prosecuted by Kamiński and now he wants revenge. He also wants to humiliate President Duda and wants to force him to issue a new pardon for Kamiński and Wasik, because that way history will end with the victory of Tusk’s narrative: that the president was not right to pardon them before there was a sentence. However, the issuing of a presidential pardon before a verdict is rendered is something that happens in many democratic countries, such as the United States, and it has happened before in Poland.
What about the Supreme Court? Some media have reported that it ruled against the presidential pardon, while other media have reported that it ruled in favour.
This is due to the parallel reality that I mentioned earlier. The Supreme Court said that the president had done the right thing. The judge who made the decision to carry out the arrests is not part of the Supreme Court. Moreover, he has very close ties to the Civic Platform—his mother works with Interior Minister Marcin Kierwiński—and he has spoken out against PiS on numerous occasions over the last eight years. There is an obvious conflict because, in Poland, judges are not allowed to become involved in politics.
Kamiński has begun a hunger strike following his arrest. Do you think that he and Wasik will soon be released?
The hunger strike is Kamiński’s response to an exceptional situation. I believe that they will not soon be released from prison, because this is about revenge. After the closure of TVP World, I thought it was a chaotic and badly organised event, and that the government would be more intelligent and responsible in future actions. But now we see that they don’t care about Poland and its image in the world, and that’s why our country now looks like a banana republic. On the night of the arrest, Tusk threatened the president, and anyone who helped Kamiński and Wasik, with jail for three to five years. It’s crazy, but this is not the first time: Tusk has repeated this kind of behaviour throughout his political career.
Perhaps that is because he knows he has the full support of Brussels.
Exactly. Just listen to the words of the European Commission spokesman when asked about this issue: “We do not comment on specific events in EU countries.” It is the ultimate expression of hypocrisy, but it is also frightening that many other democratic countries are silent about everything that is happening.
What is also striking is the aggressiveness with which the Tusk government is acting. For example, they used the police to close down TVP World, an action more reminiscent of Belarus or Russia.
Yes, it is certainly the style of Lukashenko or Putin. But Tusk has put a former lieutenant colonel of the secret service, Bartłomiej Sienkiewicz, at the head of the Ministry of Culture. And it is important to bear in mind that, before 2015, these services were not cleansed of Russian influence, just as in Poland there was no decommunisation in other fields.
TVP World was a very successful channel and the one that provided the most information in English about the war in Ukraine. Why did the government think it was necessary to close it down?
They just don’t care. They don’t care about any kind of strategic tools or infrastructure in Poland. They called themselves “total opposition” when they lost the elections in 2015, and that’s what they have been. They have opposed absolutely everything, even strategic projects or big investments, such as nuclear power plants and the airport in Warsaw that was going to be the largest in Europe. The mayor of Warsaw, Rafał Trzaskowski of Civic Platform, went so far as to say that we didn’t need the new airport because we already have one in Frankfurt. It is like thinking that “we don’t need TVP World because we have Deutsche Welle.” And it shows a servility to Berlin and Brussels, which do not want Poland to become a major player in Europe. Regarding TVP, due to the scandal that has led to its closure and the circumstances in which it took place, it will probably reopen before too long, but it will not enjoy the freedom that it has enjoyed until now.
After the arrest of the MEPs, there was a protest rally. Do you think that Poles will react to the extreme actions of the Tusk government?
It is difficult to say. The protests in the coming days are important because they will show the potential anger against Tusk’s actions and support for the PiS opposition. The problem for the conservatives is to some extent logistical, because much of their support comes from rural areas and it may be difficult for supporters to reach Warsaw. However, I believe that the conservatives are much better organised and intellectually prepared formally to confront this breakdown of the law, and we may be in for a surprise because of what has happened in the last few days.
